Cary: 0:13

Welcome to the Big Letdown.

TJ: 0:23

Welcome to the Big Letdown. I'm TJ Raines and I'm Cary Snow. We're joined today by Stephen Reed, a transformational leader who turned his personal journey into a mission that spans 40 countries. After a pivotal experience with the Mankind Project in 2010, stephen discovered his true calling in helping others navigate their professional and personal challenges. Through strength-based practices and appreciative inquiry. He's guided countless leaders through their own transformational journeys. From facilitating workshops across Africa to advising global entrepreneurship initiatives, stephen embodies the resilience that defines success. From Johannesburg, south Africa. Join us as Stephen shares his story. Thank you for joining us, stephen. We really appreciate it.

Stephen: 1:05

Thank you for the opportunity, stephen. We really appreciate it. Thank you for the opportunity. I'm looking forward to it.

TJ: 1:09

Hey, and so in our pre-interview we were talking about a few of your experiences and one experience really came out and bubbled up, because, you know, I don't know if everybody's aware, but Carrie is an amazing chef as well. But, stephen, hey, can you tell us a little bit about your experience with MasterChef?

Stephen: 1:26

Sure. So MasterChef came to South Africa I can't remember what year it was and we had to prepare food, all of us who wanted to try and get onto the show, and it had to be between roughly 32 to 39 degrees Fahrenheit, which is between zero and four degrees Celsius, and we had to stand in a long queue in the summer sun, which is hot in Johannesburg, and it's you know, in my opinion, it's really hard to have flavorful food. That's that temperature. Anyway, they test it with a temperature gun.

Stephen: 2:06

They don't want the chefs, the professional chefs who are the judges to, to get ill from um, you know, food that's um, and I was very fortunate I'd come up with some creative recipes and and the the chef who was my judge loved my food, um, and to the point that we then entered into a negotiation and he catered my wedding, no charge, in exchange for my recipes, which was a real honor for me. It was really wonderful. And then from there, the next stage of the process is you get interviewed for tv and I wasn't uh, interesting enough or fun enough or whatever was required to be on the, on the actual show, even though my food was obviously of good enough quality. That was really interesting for me because I ended up I was probably years later on the largest entrepreneur reality TV show, definitely in Africa for five years. As one of the judges, I felt a lot better around not being exciting enough for the cooking show.

TJ: 3:23

You showed them right, holy moly.

Cary: 3:25

You felt a little redeemed after that.

TJ: 3:31

So, Kerry, I assume that you guys are probably going to exchange recipes after the show, right? Oh, for sure.

Cary: 3:36

Oh for sure, that's the next podcast Cooking with Kerry and Stephen. We're going to work on that one.

Stephen: 3:43

Nice.

TJ: 3:44

Excellent. Well, thanks again for joining us. We really do appreciate it, all the way from South Africa so well. You know these stories that we share on the podcast are real, they're transformative, and you know we really want to start this conversation as openly as possible. So, yeah, give us a little bit more about your background, your experience, and tell us a few things that may have not been covered in the intro.

Stephen: 4:09

Sure, tj, I think maybe one of the things that really has affected my life the most my career is that it's always been self-employed, always a business owner. So that's straight out of school. I did my military service, which in South Africa was compulsory for white men, when I was of that age, and from there immediately started my own business and I've had successes and failures, and I'm sure we're going to be talking about some of those, but that's really part of it is having to learn on my own often how to get ahead or how to deal with setbacks and failures.

TJ: 5:06

What prompted you to get into entrepreneurship?

Stephen: 5:12

I think, arrogance and and and also that I just, you know, I wanted to be in charge. I didn't want people telling me what to do, and and, of course, of course, you know. When you're really young 20 years old you know everything. That's how I felt. So of course, I can start my own business. Of course I can be successful, of course, of course, of course, and doing something that I know nothing about, but I'll make it work, yeah.

Cary: 5:43

I was told, and through my career I had asked somebody you know when they knew they were ready to strike out on their own, be their own entrepreneur and open their own business. And the response the chef gave me was I was tired of working for other people and so I reached that point. So that meant I need to start my own and start out on my own. So kind of you started at 20, say you're not going to work for nobody, nothing wrong with that how did you go about developing, what path you wanted to go down and what was of most interest?

Stephen: 6:18

I. I think one of the one of the biggest challenges back then because that would have been the 1990s was at 20, especially in South Africa. Not sure how it would have been in the US, but there weren't many 20-year-olds entering. Actually, funny enough, kerry, I started supplying restaurants and hotels and that with catering equipment and all the smalls plates and ice forks and all of that as well as the big ovens and fridges and what have you.

Stephen: 6:49

So to be taken seriously at such a young age, and restauranteurs are, you know they can be really tough. They can be really tough because they're in a tough industry. I think any retail industry is pretty tough, tough dealing with the public all the time. So that was a challenge is being taken seriously at my age by my clients, by my suppliers you know you're joking, you can't buy a big fridge from us. How are you going to afford it? You know, and that sort of thing.

Stephen: 7:27

And then my staff because I wasn't. I didn't feel comfortable enough to employ older people who were experienced, so I was employing all these young people who didn't have a clue, kind of like me in the start. So that was really tough. I mean, I remember the first person I hired, left because they sat in the office by themselves and after three days they said the phone never rings, there's no faxes coming through, it's you and me and you're not here. So you know, and that was my first employee and so it was getting through that and just getting confident, um, and at the same time I said you know, part of it was arrogance, so I think that really helped me get ahead. Um, it was also it I'll share later in in the story of this this particular company where it was to my detriment, but I really think in the beginning it helped me get ahead because I'm just yeah, of course, no problem. Yeah, yeah, no problem. Do?

TJ: 8:30

anything right.

Cary: 8:33

Yeah, of course I got it.

TJ: 8:38

Why don't you tell us a little bit about, you know, your big letdown, or one of them? Many, many folks have a variety of letdowns throughout their career, but I'm sure there's one in particular that you want to focus on today.

Stephen: 8:50

There's a lot there. There there really is Um and I I think that's that's part of being an entrepreneur Um, uh, so. So the particular one that that I'd like to share is in the same company that I started with selling catering equipment and the smalls and I ended up designing kitchens. So I designed some of the really big commercial kitchens here in the casinos, hotels and restaurants Again, that whole how difficult can it be to draw a picture of a fridge and stuff?

Stephen: 9:25

Of course, no problem, and you know, got quite good at it. So we got some really nice contracts and I built and I built and I built and it was my father-in-law and I. We worked together in this company and we built it to a point where we were really successful in Johannesburg and then he passed away from cancer and I continued with the business and I carried on expanding it and I ended up with three branches in South Africa and we'd been exporting from Kenya which is, yeah, I'm not sure exactly, but most probably about seven in miles, about four and a half thousand miles further north, into South America, from Africa and to Mauritius and some of the islands, and we were supplying everybody as anybody and it was really a thriving, successful business. I was sponsoring awards at the catering schools and all that kind of stuff. I had two tuxedos.

Stephen: 10:31

I was very proud of myself, all the awards ceremonies we were going to, I was a thought leader in one of the trade magazines and we're carrying along and I'm super arrogant, right, and this is just really feeding my arrogance the success and it got to a point where bigger companies were coming and asking to buy my company and so on and so forth, and the one party that came to buy or to ask if they could buy it. We entered into an agreement which just absolutely went bad and I'll explain what happened. But it was just it's about me, it's not about them in any shape or form the one branch I'd opened. We were putting this particular man's father out of business. You know he was an older man.

TJ: 11:30

He had two tuxedos right. That's the measure of success here.

Stephen: 11:33

He was young and vibrant and full of energy. Two, two, tj, two, you know, I mean, that's what it's all about, right? And so the son had come and said if you buy my father out, then we're going to enter into a deal, we do all these things and it's going to be fantastic. And so I just jumped in. Of course I can do this. And then he never fulfilled his part of the agreement, but it wasn't a written agreement, it was verbal. I just, you know, of course, course, what he's telling me is correct. And he just never followed through. So I then stopped my written commitments and I refused to take his phone calls because he must come and see me, he must drive from another state, another province to see me, because to make this deal, he had done that. So to fix it, he must done that, so to fix it, he must do that um, which of course he didn't. Uh, he sent lawyers and, uh, it was a really big business that he had. It's still going, which is why I'm not mentioning the name um and and, uh, and.

Stephen: 12:47

And I ended up in court, uh, fighting this, this, this court case of them trying to liquidate my business. And I won the first court case and then they carried on in a higher court. It brought a different case against me, which I fought, and eventually I ran out of money. I cannot explain to people who haven't been through a seven-month court case just what it costs. And I ran, I literally ran out of money.

Stephen: 13:16

So now I am insolvent and the business should close. There's no money in that and that's what it was, and my staff some of them gave testimony on behalf of the person who was trying to close the business. I let down all my staff, across all the branches, all their families, and that you know. They were just without a job. My wife left me with my daughter and then the bank came and took all my homes, my properties. I'd collected everything that I had and on my 30th birthday I ended up on my mother's couch, because that was it. I was without my wife and child and I had nowhere to stay and no money, and I was really, really bitter. I must say. You know the world, the universe, had turned against me, in my opinion at the time.

TJ: 14:23

Wow, wow, yeah. So when you found yourself on your mother's couch, you know what were some of the thoughts that were going through your mind. I'm sure you were looking back at the activities and the effort that you put into the legal case. How did you get here? What's next? Could you talk a little bit through your mindset at that point in time, and how did you get yourself out of that?

Stephen: 14:55

sure, well, it's, it's a. It's a longer story in in that that the case didn't end because then you know this, this man was very powerful and and really upset that I had, uh, didn't have the skills at that age. I didn't have the experience, the life experience, of how to deal with that sort of event in in life and I needed to hide. I just felt that if people saw me as a failure then I'm a failure, like everything about me is a failure. Even though I'm being offered directorships into other companies, I just I'm a failure, I'm fake, it's. You know, I can't go back to this industry because people are going to see me and judge me and I just really felt humiliated and small, I guess.

Cary: 15:50

You know, your perspective is actually quite unique, steven, because it comes from your letdown, wasn't born from an organization per se, like where you, who you work for, letting you down. You know, it was more from an industry rival of sorts, almost like a borderline vendetta for actions that occurred and at that age had to be monumental to try to take in and absorb. When you say you started at 20, you kind of feel you're on top of the world, you're attacking this entrepreneurship. Then you feel like again, like like you say you take on the world and then it all comes, you know, falling down from. You know, piece by piece, different areas of facets, facets of life. How did you, how did you just juggle that as it came down with? Were you like, did you start, like you said, disbelief, did it? Did it start to sink in after a while and kind of, where did that go?

Stephen: 16:52

It really. I think it really sank in that this is where I'm at when I had no money at all to pay a lawyer and I was still in court. So I got advice from the lawyers like and so I got advice from the lawyers like this is what you're going to need to do, and I had to start fighting my own legal battle. Anybody now like I've lost the case but they're still going and checking things have I hidden money in my divorce? Was that divorce on purpose to hide money? And you know there, these all these sort of things, and I'm going and I'm arguing against senior in south africa advocates which are, you know, the highest level of of attorneys and and I'm arguing against uh, you know these people. And then after when, when we outside, they say to me you know, you don't call the judge your honor, you call the judge your worship, you know. So maybe next time you want to do that, that might help you.

Stephen: 17:58

And it was this kind of process going on and just continuously fighting and just seeing where the system. Because this is what's interesting. You said it wasn't an organization, which it wasn't right, it wasn't, this was me, but what was interesting was the corruption in the system that I then found. So the master of the Supreme Court at the time. They actually raided his house, the police, because there was so much corruption going on with who was then chosen as liquidators. So there was a whole corrupt practice so that money flowed out of this process. I'm not exactly sure how it all worked, but that was really really interesting and I was able to identify places where corruption had happened and I was submitting all this evidence and so on, which fueled my narrative that I needed to put out into the world that I was not a failure. You know, I didn't want people to see that that, oh, look at this, look what they're doing to me. And they're not doing it to me, they're doing it to everybody. And they didn't close my business, I did through my arrogance and what have you. But that really fueled that perception for me that I'm being wronged and so on, and that stayed with me. Yeah, they had lawyers and private detectives following me. I had other businesses open at the time and with the banks, they went and they started stripping the assets out of other businesses that were not connected to this one and I just didn't have the strength, the fortitude, all the resources to fight back. So, again, you know I'm a victim, so that's the word I needed. I'm the victim here, and that's where it ended up. And what came out of that this victimhood and being a fraud and having this false narrative that I've created, that I'm the victim because I'm not the victim. But what it did for me is I'm never going to have staff again. That's what I'd said. I'm never having staff Staff. Look, they turned on me Never and I felt really bad about letting people down.

Stephen: 20:31

That was you know. I'd really lived families that relied on me. Never and I felt really bad about letting people down. That was you know. I'd really lived families that relied on me and I'd let them down. So that's it.

Stephen: 20:39

I'm never having stock. All these suppliers and I owed them money. All the stock was stuck in these multiple warehouses and I couldn't give it back to them. And they're fighting me and it's not me. The process needs to go and then they can get their stock back, but they're all carrying that cost, which is detrimental to to their businesses. So I'm never having stock again. So what? What do you do then? Well, then you become a consultant. You know um and and because, because I was, um, just feeling that this victimhood, and that I kept taking on consulting roles, that I was trying to set myself up for failure, if you can try and imagine that. So I would go and try something brand new that I knew nothing about and then do it at risk. So I don't want to fee, you know, like I'll take a percentage if I'm successful, and I just kept doing more and more of these risky endeavors kind of self-punishment, I think, would be the best way of explaining it.

TJ: 21:52

It sounds also like you know this is an opportunity for reinvention, right Going back to your core and figuring out what do you really want to do and what are the opportunities ahead of you. How did you select the consulting opportunities that you went into? You said a lot of them, you had very little experience in which ones really kind of popped out at you.

Stephen: 22:17

Well, a friend of mine offered me work as a consultant, to start with, saying you know, we know you great at sales and all of this. Would you come and help us to um work with the, the bbc, the british broadcasting corporation. They want to uh, release magazines here. We want to do all of this. I'm like, yeah, of course you know, you know design kitchens, of course I know how to launch magazines. Did that really successfully. That was really really successful.

Stephen: 22:53

So, suddenly, because I had such a um, um, a strong, credible brand behind me, um, then somebody else I knew, I, I got work, um, I don't know if you ever had the big brother reality tv show. Yeah, I worked on the first one that came to south africa and all the um, the, the merchandise that was going to be sold, uh, the, the people who had the licenses for the merchandising couldn't get retail contracts because the retailer said this is never going to work. Big brother, it's nonsense. Remember, it was the first reality show doing global and. And so I was asked if I would take on the responsibility of getting all the merchandise sold for Big Brother, which I did, wow. And so everything was sold, I met everybody's contracts, everybody was happy and so on.

Stephen: 23:47

So now I had these two big brands behind me and that had been successful. So it was terrible. It was really really bad for my victimhood. So from there I started doing this like really really silly roles, just with absolute strangers, people coming to me because they'd seen me moving around with big brother in this and asking me can you help me set up a drumming workshop in in schools? Sure, of course, no problem, that sort of stuff Excellent.

Cary: 24:21

So doing so doing this time after your, your court cases and all that stuff was going on you threw yourself into into this work, which is kind of like your, kind of like your therapy for yourself. You're just trying to find your way, find a niche, because a lot of times when we talk and we talk about after, an organization lets you down in some shape, form or fashion and you're in that role of trying to find yourself again. You're trying to pick yourself up, you're trying to find your true north per se. So was this kind of like your process, your mental process, to rediscover yourself.

Stephen: 24:55

It was, and TJ used the term reinvention. So I was trying to reinvent myself and the victim part was trying to do something new every time rather than reinvention, because the consulting and being seen as an expert in a specific field is the reinvention, because the the consulting and being seen as an expert in in a specific field, um, is the reinvention, but every time I'm doing something in a new field. So how can I be an expert as such um, and and then just really trying to punish myself financially that that it's successful I earned, and how do I do the next one at a higher level of risk, around being paid because and, and that, and, and what, what. What really became cathartic from from this process eventually was I ended up working with um entrepreneurs in in really impoverished areas, because you know where do you go where there's no money, go to impoverished communities. That'll teach you around getting paid. And I started working with people who had incredible talent, incredible talent and just money savvy beyond anything I had. I mean the way they're able to survive. But they didn't have the opportunities and I was able to help there. So that really became part of.

Stephen: 26:27

A pivot point for me is seeing that one of my attributes that I'm proud of and really stand fast in is I dislike bullies. So a system that's a bully, a person's bully, a big company that's a bully, and so on. And I'm working with these small entrepreneurs, startups, solopreneurs and so on and helping them try and move up in the system. And the other thing that shored me up around this it was a bit before this was just really focusing on my physical health I dove into endurance sports. I had lots of time and you know you don't need a lot of money to run, you don't need a lot of money to swim and all of these things up doing off-road ultra marathons, small triathlons, long distance swimming, long distance running, long distance cycling events. I really that made such a huge difference to my mental state was being fit. So it's not that I won anything, it was just being able to finish and I'm only competing against myself. That was really really something that helped me.

TJ: 27:58

So how much did being open to offering support to those in need, how much did that really drive you? It sounds like that was a key turning point in your story is you went into these impoverished communities. You found solo entrepreneurs who were working at resource levels that you were unfamiliar with, at an extreme low level. Was that the true turning point where service became a major part of your story?

Stephen: 28:25

I think that was the start of it that my life is not that bad. First of all, you know and I'm learning a lot and I'm giving a lot, and that giving really felt good. It really felt good and there's often a very quick, tangible result that we can change something around. You know somebody who has very close to zero financial literacy but is really good at surviving and helping them understand, and you know they get it and suddenly that changes their business instantly. So just those small wins and because of where I was, everything's small.

Stephen: 29:11

So I think breaking things down into small steps is is another way of really just like getting wins of these little little things. So if you don't get it, it's a small fail and if you do get it, it's a win. And in my life, you know, at that stage I didn't feel like a winner. So that was, you know, one was I was super fit, so physically I felt strong and powerful. And then having these little wins for others not for me, so much for others really really helped me the successes of others.

TJ: 29:50

You're applying your expertise and capabilities to help others succeed. It's a really insightful part of your story and so, as you started working towards the next phase of your career, the next phase of your life, let's talk about your come up, let's go into it. So, from your perspective, what I'm starting to see here, this is the arc of where you're starting to build up new, strong capabilities, a new understanding of yourself and how you can apply it to be successful, but also to help others be successful. Let's keep following that arc. What, what happened next?

Stephen: 30:35

So from working with these small entrepreneurs, tj, it was more and more and more and people saw and then organizations started asking can I work on their behalf? They would like to invest funds. So I started doing that. So suddenly I had access to finance for these smaller businesses so we could really have more of an impact. So we could really have more of an impact the entrepreneur and the corporate or fund or whatever it was and start building out these businesses. And that grew and grew and grew until I was asked by one of our large insurance companies here I don't know if they're the largest, second largest, whichever it was, companies here, I don't know if they're the largest, second largest, whichever it was if I would set up entrepreneurial schools in some of these impoverished areas. So I ended up with three schools, you know, because we're all school teachers. So I had schools for adults.

Stephen: 31:38

And what was lovely having a whole lot of money behind me from the get-go that I could do stuff was that I could institute a methodology from what I'd learned. And part of that was that not everybody's going to be successful as an entrepreneur, and that's okay. And how do you? How do you have a filtering process that is not harmful to those who are not going to make it through and yet it's really fast, efficient and and cost effective. You know, I don't want to spend a whole lot of resources on somebody who's not going to make it through the program, for whatever it is, and I don't want to harm anybody. You know I don't want anybody to feel that they're less than because they came and joined our course.

Cary: 32:36

You know I found it interesting, you know, as you arced through this whole process of your life and your career. It's interesting that you know that your big letdown could have potentially in some way been a big letdown for the employees that you had and how that could have been a trickle down effect. Because you know you started with saying something like you didn't want any more employees. I'm done with employees and you know that that's big, you know, because a lot of people don't um in your position because you were. You were a leader in a way, so your letdown was yours. Your letdown could have trickled down to other people becoming a letdown. You know how. You know when we, when we're having these conversations, we just want to know you know we're trying to give information how to navigate these letdowns and when you kind of, did you ever kind of think back at I let my employees down, that I let them down in some way, and then when you realized, if you did, how did you navigate that just a little bit of process through?

Stephen: 33:38

that yeah, bit of process through that, yeah, that I carried with me for such a long time, Kerry, that I had failed these families Some of them, I knew their families, their kids. I'd rushed people to hospitals because their children had emergencies and just put them in my car and we went. So I was close to some of my employees not all, but some but I really felt that I'd let people down and I carried it for a long time and and at some stage it's self-forgiveness you know that this we let me speak for myself. So I judged myself really harshly and it was just at some point and I can't, I wish I could tell you this happened, but at some point it was just I was able to forgive myself. And you know this is what happens.

Stephen: 34:35

You know, for however many years I'd been responsible for, you know, their families thriving in some way with them. You know they had done the work, I had the business, I had taken the risk, and then it failed and even though it was my fault I was then I forgave myself. So I think that's just so important as well. You know, for me is that just to be gentle with myself. Even going forward with the entrepreneurs, it doesn't work. Be gentle with myself. I'm trying to be gentle with others, but then with myself as well. I'm trying to be gentle with others, but then with myself as well, and having this process of trying to get people who are not going to be successful in my program out as quickly as possible is to be kind to myself as well. That I can't do it for everybody, so let me just try and do it well for some. Yeah, so anyway, short story self-forgiveness.

TJ: 35:43

That's really interesting. I really like the parallel that you made to basically moving from where you felt responsible for some of the impacts on your employees, your past employees but from what I'm hearing, it sounds like that helped influence the way in which you treat others who are in your entrepreneurship schools, and it's a compassionate act to work with somebody to let them know that you're not ready for this yet. You may be in the future, but right now you're not, and working them through options and eventually it may be that they need to leave, right, but I think that's a very compassionate act. Do you think that your past you know, involvement with employees letting them down in some ways helped influence that?

Stephen: 36:33

I think so. I think one was having the employees and I think two was just where I had chosen to work. Now, really, you know, people do not have a lot, and when I say that just for context, sometimes there's no electricity, not because people can't afford it, because there's no electricity grid. There's outdoor toilets, there's outdoor taps and you carry water into your home. So no, I mean, it's not the only places I work. But I just want to give a little bit of context. And there I was feeling sorry for myself and my life is not that bad. I'm driving, driving there, I'm having conversations with friends going, oh, you know, I'm trying to work on Excel and there's no electricity and my laptop only lasts, you know, three, four hours. And then somebody says buy an iPad, and I go, what's an iPad in those days? And that lasts 11 hours. So my life is not that bad in comparison. So so I think that was the other side, was just getting a little bit of perspective. And and what it actually got me the perspective, um, I had a phone call from a friend in the uk and and he had, he had lost everything, uh, literally everything. Uh, you know, he ended up on the street, with with the. So that's a whole other story.

Stephen: 38:02

And I was telling him my story and he said well, this happened to me and it was the best day of my life. And I go what are you saying? It's the best day of your life? He says I realized it's only one way from here on, because I've got nothing to lose. And that really, really sat with me. So things can only get better. I've got a not the best car, but it goes, so I'm going to get a better car. It can only go this way. And I'm renting and I want to buy a house. It's going to go that way, and so on and so forth. So everything's going to get better. I had no money to help these people. Now we've got funders, so it was this. Now we've got a school, now we've got three schools, so it was this. There's a direction to go and those little little steps.

TJ: 38:57

Yeah, that really helped me there are a few examples of you know true overnight successes, right, I mean we? We end up building our future based upon the small steps that you take and the small successes throughout our efforts. Uh yeah, this is a great example of that. Can you tell us a little bit about your life today? Sure, how are things going? I?

Stephen: 39:18

just want to add. So what happened with all of this is I ended up doing some training through a men's organization, and that was where I really found my passion, my calling, which is around what's happened before, so don't like bullies. What's happened before, so don't like bullies. That sticks. That's going to stick forever. I like helping others grow and see them flourish in that. So, through that process, I do a lot of work with men. I still work with entrepreneurs and and I work with big organizations and leaders now as well, and I've got certified as a coach. So instead, instead of just coaching you know I'm certified and that's where I am today is that I really, really in a space of looking for strengths. So that's the work is what are the opportunities, what are the strengths? It doesn't matter what's going on you know it's turbulent times all over the world and just looking what are the opportunities and what are the gifts that I have, what are the strengths that I have?

Stephen: 40:32

People I'm working with, what are the strengths that they have? And just get out of this fear-based mentality, because I know what fear did to me and I got so stuck. I don't want to be seen. They're going to see me as a failure. What happens if I fail again? What happens if I succeed? Oh my goodness, you know? And it's just fear, fear, fear.

Stephen: 40:55

And now I'm in a space where I honestly believe that there's enough. Whatever that looks like to you, that's great, but there's enough. So what are the strengths that I can use? What do I have? So take a breath, just slow down, stephen. And what can I do to move forward? So I've just had the privilege of working with people from well it's well over 40 countries now, and working with organizations that have massive impact in the world and the work that they do, and being able to support them, helping them find their strengths. What's working for them? They often can't see it. What's the risk? What's the risk? No, no, no. What's the opportunity? And I'm not walking away from risks, but I'm more interested in what's working, so we can amplify that.

Cary: 41:56

For us to take a moment and talk to the entrepreneurs out there who maybe are trying to start a business or organization or lead organization, you know, and they have failed more than they succeeded and they're just trying to figure out what's next. What do you tell them to help them move, to move forward.

Stephen: 42:15

Take a breath, just take. Take a breath Whenever you're going to make decisions. In that, take a breath. We are so designed as human beings to look at risks and to be in the space of what are the threats. And if you're able to just take a breath and get yourself out of this fight and flight mentality, you're able to use your cognitive abilities to see what's available. So you know, I failed a dozen times plus and and for. For other entrepreneurs there who are trying and struggling in that is just have a look at what's worked. What, what have you done that's worked and why is it work? What did you do that made that thing successful Can be anything. That's what you should be focusing on. That's what you want to amplify.

TJ: 43:14

Excellent. So, as we wrap up today, are there any final words that you want to leave our listeners with? I know you just just gave us an amazing, an amazing journey, an amazing story. Any final words that you want to leave the listeners with?

Stephen: 43:30

find a support structure. I never mentioned that, but you know my family is just amazing. They stuck by me through everything, um and and I'm just so grateful because I'm able to give back now in so many ways while they stuck with me. So find a support structure. Look after your health physical, mental, both of them. If you look after your physical, it will help you with your mental. And just be so gentle on yourself. We all mess up. That's part of life. Just take a breath and stop being judgmental, especially about yourself. That would be my message to the world is just take a breath and be kind to yourself.

Cary: 44:18

Excellent. You know I want to take two seconds real quick to give Stephen some flowers. You know we talk about big letdowns and what I want listeners to know is doing my big letdown. We talked about that in one of our episodes. Already People know that Stephen was in my world, in my circle, doing my letdown. We talked about that in one of our episodes. Already People know that I would, that Steven was in my world and my circle doing my letdown. And we've worked together on a couple of things and this advice that he has given his stories talk to actually fit into me, to help pick me back up, to get me back on the road to my big come up. So now that I have a chance to actually take a moment to thank Steven and everything that they're talking to him. So now our listeners know that what he says is viable because it really helped me. He was one of those support structures that helped me in my big come up. So giving flowers now where I can. So thank you, stephen, for that and thank you so?

TJ: 45:15

much. Well, it's a pleasure meeting you today, Stephen, and I look forward to watching your career and watching the great work that you're doing with others throughout the world. I mean, this is a global impact and we're so happy to have you on our show but really to be as part of this community. We're looking to pump some positivity in the world and I think you just did that today. Thank you so much. We'll be right back. Outro Music Bye.