Speaker 1: 0:11

Every career has its defining moments, those unexpected turns that reveal who we truly are and our path to living it out. I'm TJ Raines.

Speaker 2: 0:20

And I'm Cary Snow. Each episode, we sit down with remarkable individuals who've transformed career setbacks into powerful comebacks.

Speaker 1: 0:29

Today we're thrilled to welcome Dr Valencia Gabay, a leader in higher education and learning design, who's shifting the narrative on how we think about inclusive learning environments. As a program director, she's pioneering approaches to partnership management in support of inclusive teaching and learning.

Speaker 2: 0:49

What many don't know is the fascinating journey that led her here. Her research in communities of practice and inclusive leadership have not only shaped organizations but emerged from experiences that tested and transformed her leadership philosophy and journey.

Speaker 1: 1:02

Dr Gabay's insights on learning design and positive organizational scholarship couldn't be more relevant in today's rapidly evolving educational landscape. We'll explore how her work in creating inclusive spaces has influenced her approach to navigating career challenges.

Speaker 2: 1:16

So get ready for an inspiring conversation about resilience, reinvention and the power of inclusive leadership. Dr Gabay, welcome to the Big Letdown.

Speaker 3: 1:27

Oh man, that was nice.

Speaker 1: 1:30

Well before we get started, we always want to tap into a fun fact with our guest and Valencia. We found that fun fact and could you share it with us?

Speaker 3: 1:43

Sure. So at the age of 50, I decided to start taking ballet lessons. It was something for me as a way to kind of get out of a rut that I might've been feeling with like I do yoga. I've been doing yoga for probably about over a decade and I was like I want something different. I want to be challenged. So I always like to be challenged, and boy is it a challenge. So I'm in a room with people who are younger than me, older than me, that look great. My teacher is very difficult. It is 90 minutes of full-on vulnerability. The end is my favorite because in the last few minutes of the course of the class you are kind of doing the promenades all the way across the room by yourself as other people are watching. So it is extremely vulnerable. In those moments you might be tripping, you might get it wrong, but it is just a lesson in, I think, humility at its finest to be able to do that.

Speaker 1: 2:42

What's the age spread of-?

Speaker 3: 2:44

Oh my gosh, if I had to guess my teacher's older than me, if, to give you some context, the instructor but there are, it's probably in the 20s and 30s and I may be one of two or three people like in that 50, 60 age range and I have my Amazon ballet shoes on while somebody else is out there, like you know tied up you know point shoes.

Speaker 2: 3:07

Your two-day shipping shoes.

Speaker 3: 3:09

Right, like you know, it would be nice, and I've got like some yoga pants on that are probably ripped on the side and like a t-shirt, so it was really just a lesson in come as you are, do what you know to do, but also you are sore. By the end of the 90 minute, I mean, I am like broke down, whole entire body sore.

Speaker 2: 3:29

So yeah, you know I sit here, I'm listening to you and I'm going to date myself a little bit, I guess. But all I can imagine as you tell this story is I don't know if anybody else remembers this out there, but the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air episode, where Aunt Viv went to the ballet class and they were giving her a hard time because she was older and they didn't think she could be flexible to do it. And she went and she did that. At the end it was about time it was over. She did it. All I can see is you. I'm picturing you with the arms going side to side, sashaying up and down the floor, and then you snap and it's done.

Speaker 3: 4:09

I'm out, I'm at the end, you're outside the room and you're like breathing really heavy. But I will say that the other part of it is you get a lesson in French, so she speaks straight French through the whole class, like you know, as you do your moves and stuff. So it's full on learning for 90 minutes and humility. That's great.

Speaker 2: 4:28

So if I slip up and call you on Viv during the episode, don't don't hold it against me.

Speaker 3: 4:36

Yeah, when I was, you know, first second grade, I even went to like, what do you call those? Like, um, what do they call those at the end, when you have to do at the end of like your season, you have to do like a little dance routine in front of everybody recital, recitals and stuff like that it had like a bag. I actually loved the idea of being in that room with individuals like, and we're doing things in unis. It was always kind of just enriching. But my mom was like it's time for piano.

Speaker 3: 5:08

And I was like wait what I was really awful at it, but ballet was something I had just always caught. It's just like the epitome of grit and grace.

Speaker 1: 5:21

Tell us a little bit about yourself and your background, your experience and everything that has led up to where you are and who you are today.

Speaker 3: 5:33

I've been in higher education for two decades, it's been something that actually came out of another experience. I went to school for psychology. I was like I'm going to be a psychologist, this is going to be awesome. I got my undergraduate in psych, went to the University of Florida. I thought it was a great experience. The psych department was kind of down this big hill and I walked down this hill one day after earning my degree and I'm like I'm going to go to graduate school and be a psychologist. And they said you've got 12 hours of statistics right off the bat. And I said no, thank you. I was awful at math. I was not going to do that.

Speaker 3: 6:08

And a friend of mine was like go to mental health counseling. It's in higher, you know, counselor education. And I was like, of course, and so I started taking the classes and I needed a job. So my first job as I started graduate school was being a counselor assistant for an office of academic support institutional services where I worked with students and counseling students and I've loved it. And someone's like you know, when you're in where you are in counselor education, you can transition over into student personnel in higher ed. And I was like what is that that's a thing they're like? Yes, I had no idea. So, if it was that, that job was the kind of gateway to me understanding what the student personnel was that I had been doing every day and I loved it, got the degree and kind of from there went into academic advising at Georgia State University, came back to UF and did advising at the College of Pharmacy and their doctor of pharmacy program, went to UCF University of Central Florida advising orientation and then I went to online learning when I had my kids.

Speaker 3: 7:07

So education has always kind of been there in the background and I think I've covered almost every part of it, whether it's learning design, whether it's advising program director. So it's somewhat part of my identity, but I'm always open to exploring new areas within higher education. There was always something that drew me to helping and serving the student population, particularly those first year students. That has been like one of my. It just is an enriching feeling for me, for me to be able to share my experience of being in college, for me to motivate somebody else and finish in college. So that connection right there has always been kind of the cornerstone as far as to say it is my channel of service. Service is something that I see that's part of my life, but education was the way. It was just the channel that I could give that, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 8:02

Do you through your process which is actually kind of funny and I can connect. When I went to school undergrad, I was a psych major when I started, but my mom talked me out of it and so I changed my major. But the one thing that will, I know, moms, the one thing that always seemed to resonate throughout my process is the love for psychology as I would transition through different iterations of myself. As you were going through, did you still feel that pull? Did psychology or that passion for psychology still help you as you went through your iterations?

Speaker 3: 8:39

Yes, and I think it was more of the concept of being able to listen, being able to be a source of support. So, with students, the concept of challenge and support, right Whenever you're talking about higher education, you have to do the challenge, you have to do the support. So I think that uniqueness of, especially with psychology, right, they're going to say you've got to challenge yourself right as an individual to be able to move up. So taking some of those echoes of psychology and bringing it into how I would advise a student absolutely and that one-on-one dynamic is really important. The other part of psychology I think is important is the ability to understand character, the characters of others, the personalities of others. So I was drawn to personality. So the personality part of psychology, social psych, was always a big one for me. I love those courses.

Speaker 3: 9:30

I took an undergrad and grad because it was just so interesting. Where I was kind of deficit was cognitive cycle. I was like that was tricky for me. But when it came to the social aspect, the personality or having the opportunity to what they would do in mental health counseling courses was of course you had to be.

Speaker 3: 9:44

Opportunity to what they would do in mental health counseling courses was, of course, you had to be on camera and they would watch you like supervise you as you were going through this process. It was amazing to me to listen to someone's story and kind of you know where that person may need to change, but your goal is always to allow them to figure that out and provide that space to do it. So one of the other things I did do along my journey is I got certified as a coach and that gave me a little bit more of that, just a little bit. I know it's different, but it gave me a little bit of that ability to kind of be in sync in these conversations with my students, or anyone for that matter.

Speaker 1: 10:18

So, yeah, let's start at the beginning. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your big letdown?

Speaker 3: 10:24

Sure yeah. So can I set the table? Can I provide a little?

Speaker 2: 10:29

context oh, for sure, for sure.

Speaker 3: 10:31

We're going to go to 2017, right around in there, 2017, 2018. All right, I was an online instructor, full-time at a fully online academic institution. I had been there probably six or seven years, maybe even going on eight years. I was been there probably six or seven years, maybe even going on eight years. I was there for a little bit of time, which is probably the longest I've ever been at a job. So I'll tell you that right there. It's probably the longest I've ever been at a job and we had come into this season where the instructors needed to really amp their student to faculty engagement, to increase student to student engagement.

Speaker 3: 11:06

So there's this change initiative that had to take place with a core faculty and we were teaching a gateway course. It was a class that all students had to come through before going on to their upper courses. It was a course where they would get kind of acclimated to online learning, the format, the classroom information, literacy all these things that we were giving them. That were really good content and the course had gone through several iterations. But I was part of a group of faculty or instructors that were facilitating this change right, and part of it was developing these communities of practice and so smaller groups of faculty would get together. We would talk about the need to increase your engagement with your students and this is how you're going to do it. And it was implementing metacognitive frameworks in the teaching right. So asking more open-ended questions in discussion forums. As we did that as instructors, students modeled that and they would ask that to their peers and it worked. And so we started to see this increase in faculty spending more time in the classroom, students connecting with each other and students staying a little bit longer in the class, because by week three, some of them had just stopped coming. That was kind of the nature of online learning too. We had noticed that, so we wanted to change that. So we had gone through this initiative. I was excited about it and they said, hey, let's write about this, let's write about this work that we were doing. So it was an introduction into publications, right, like publishing work and writing about it. We wrote a book about it. We presented at conferences. I loved it. This is amazing. I was like I could do this forever. I love it, I love it. So that was kind of the cool part around 2016, 2017.

Speaker 3: 12:51

What was happening at the higher level was this murmur of that's great that y'all are doing that, that's cute that you guys are doing that, but the landscape of higher education is changing and we need a little bit more than this. And so it became this constant beat of what else can we do? What else can we do? And in that process, of the higher ups people that I knew at executive level, I started to hear well, that person's not there anymore or they don't work in that position anymore. And you started to see the change up there right, and we had a new provost come in and this person started to question the relevance of the course. And that's when I started to be like wait a minute, we've been doing all these things, we've published all this. What are you talking about? And some of the leaders, like right above me, were like but you know, don't worry about it. You know it's okay, don't worry about it, things will be good, don't worry, you're safe, don't worry about that. But I kept seeing right people leaving. Some of the faculty were like listen, we're done with this. I finished kind of coasted into retirement. It was almost like I don't know if you both can understand this like a tree and you start pruning just bits and pieces of the tree off to get exactly what you want, and I could feel kind of this, it's coming right. And then we would get things like well, then maybe we need to change the format. Just a constant move with this. Change the format, just a constant move with this. And so fast forwarding to the end of 2017,.

Speaker 3: 14:31

I was at home at my desk and one of the leaders texts me. I've been pretty close to this person and it texts me and they're like hey, do you have a minute? I was like yeah for sure, sure, and on the phone, and this person said are you sitting down? And that's when I thought they're pruning, we're gone, and that's what happened. You will get an email tomorrow.

Speaker 3: 15:03

The program in the department has been dissolved, and it was. It was I can tell you now. Like, like reflecting on this, it was like the fairy dust had been lifted off of my eyes, right, like this person was talking and the only thing I could think about was you did all this stuff. You did all these things you had. You were told you were safe, that this would not be you, because you had performed so well and my performance reviews were great and you were instrumental, and all of these things. And I kept thinking.

Speaker 3: 15:34

And the big letdown for me wasn't that I I mean, it was bad enough that they dissolved it but what was the big letdown was I felt like a fool, because somewhere in all of that, in the back of my mind, was the voice, right, my voice that was like girl, do you not see these pebbles coming on your head?

Speaker 3: 15:59

Do you not see what's going on? But the louder voice was don't worry about that, you're going to be okay, you're going to be safe, don't worry about that, don't worry about that. And so for me it was this kind of on the surface, lack of trust. I didn't have any more trust, right, in those people that had told me don't worry, that was gone. And then this core of emptiness where I was depleted because I had done so much, and at the very, very, very core of that, so like the circle of another one very core was I betrayed myself. And that was kind of just the beginning of anything that I thought, I knew, I didn't know. And it was a new journey at that point for me to kind of figure out now what, what are you going to do?

Speaker 1: 16:57

The support system that you relied on to help guide your work and guide your continued impact on the students and on the programming and whatnot kind of failed you to a certain degree right In creating this narrative that things are going great, no worries.

Speaker 3: 17:14

Yeah, you know, the funny thing is, tj, I kept it quiet. I kept it quiet. I kept it quiet because there was a part of me that thought, well, maybe they were just doing what they knew to do, right, you don't want people running right, but I think what I would have appreciated, like reflecting on that, was a little bit more of transparency, like, look, listen, we're going to do everything we can, but this is what's really going on, this is what's really happening. And it's happening because maybe we should have done the change earlier. It's happening because we are getting ready to, you know, whatever it was like.

Speaker 3: 17:49

I feel like, had I kind of known more of that or that been shown more? It wasn't so secret, squirrel, right, but you know, certain people will kind of drop hints here and there, but I think it really needed to have been hey department, this is what's happening and we are preparing for some significant change. And it's not just where you are, it is across the college. And what I need for you to understand is we're going to try all we can, right, but just know that we are in a flux right now. Right, we're in a serious flux.

Speaker 3: 18:27

And to understand, to give you some context when people had said to me the landscape of higher education is changing in 2016 and 2017, that's the first time I've ever heard of that Like, what does that mean? What it meant was what we were doing or had been doing was slowly becoming pretty old and antiquated, and the pace with which higher education it was rapid, it was picking up, it was digital format. There were things that we weren't doing, that other schools were doing, and while I think they did the best that they could do, it just felt that every time I hear that word don't worry or you'll be safe it really it is the trigger to save yourself right, get ready to do something. I don't know if that means put your CV together. I don't know. So those are the things. Now that means put your CV together, I don't know. So those are the things. Now that you know. I think differently about that. I want to know about the change. I want to know how it's going to impact me so that I can be ready.

Speaker 1: 19:40

Your department is shutting down. You and your colleagues just got the news In that first moment, or those first moments.

Speaker 3: 19:50

What went through your mind? I thought I had more time, I thought there was going to be more time, I thought it would have been done differently. I don't know why, but something just struck me. As you know, we felt like we were still in the fight and then, all of a sudden, it was just like, hey, we're just going to go ahead and just it's done. A few months after that, I developed breast cancer, and so it was a mess. My health had started to decline in that way, and it was a big wake up call to putting myself first number one, because I don't think I had done a very good job of that but also a bigger wake up call to understanding, personally and professionally, who I was becoming. And while this was a letdown, in some ways, it was kind of an awakening to. Well, now that that's gone, who are you becoming? You know, and how are you going to rise to meet that version of who you're becoming?

Speaker 1: 21:00

What technique did you use to get started?

Speaker 3: 21:03

Getting a journal and starting to write. Where did I see myself? You know, within this industry, and so one of the things that I had always known is that I love learning, and this may sound very cliche, but one of the ways I needed to channel some of this was to go back to school. So I'd been out of school for probably like 20 years, and I remember missed opportunities, several missed opportunities to go back to school, because I was thinking the way someone else would think Like you don't want to do that, that's so lame, nobody does that, and you know you're not going to make any money if you go back and do your PhDs. I don't even do that. And so these were some colleagues that were saying those things to me too, so I thought, why not? Why not? Now? Going back to school had become one of the lifelines for me.

Speaker 1: 22:02

We one of the lifelines for me. We hear quite often that support systems are essential to help folks get through these types of challenges. Tell us a little bit about your support system. Who did you rely on?

Speaker 3: 22:10

So a couple of the instructors that I had worked with and we both were in the same boat, we didn't have our. We got together and we were like we still want to continue this work, this, this change management work that we've been doing. So we continued to write. We actually opened up a business briefly and had a client and we did some learning, design and I'm still trying to keep that kind of fire lit. We had been connected for a very long time, all the way through my surgeries for cancer. They were there. They were, you know, we would help each other Like, hey, what do you think we should do? We would meet each other's CVs. We would try to help each other kind of figure out how to get back in to get work done. So that was great.

Speaker 3: 22:56

The other part of it is some of the leaders at that previous organization would reach out and say, hey, listen, I got an opportunity. It's consulting. I thought about you. I know you do really good work, would you join us? So I would have a consulting gig for a couple of months, so that support system. Some of the colleagues would reach back out and we would kind of, hey, we found this job, so we just started. For some they were able to go off and find other jobs. I was one that was still kind of looking and still doing odds and ends but, interestingly enough, one of the leaders at the organization we kept in contact to where I can reach back out and they were like hey, we've got some more contact, consulting work to do. That led into a full-time position at another organization. And so I would say it was just that keeping that connection to those individuals who were kind of in the same boat, that I was using our strengths to kind of lift each other up when we were feeling really bad.

Speaker 3: 23:54

I had one of my colleagues who would reach out and be like email me, send me a book what to eat. Don't eat this, eat that. Send me a book. You know what to eat. Don't eat this, eat that. You have breast cancer. You don't need to eat that anymore. You know, just trying to, just really trying to help, which was so, so, so, very important. As far as my family. It was more of take the time you need. If going back to work right now isn't what you need to do, then Okay. And so it was school and it was saying, okay, we're going to do this. We're going to, we're going to you're going to go back to school. We're going to make the adjustments around the house. We're going to pitch in more so you can have this opportunity for growth. If that's what you need and it was it was what I needed.

Speaker 1: 24:35

So it's so great that you had a strong support system behind you through the personal challenges, the professional challenges and everything. I think it's important to really leverage your network as well.

Speaker 2: 24:50

Wherever you can. Yeah, you find them going back to old mentors or searching for new mentors. During my time I did that, I jumped on LinkedIn and I sent out like 10 blind messages to people in my field saying I was looking for a mentor. And of the 10, I've got one person who actually emailed me back and we talked and he was so great that he set up a time every month, one day each month, out of his time schedule, to talk. So everybody looks for that His mentors, his family.

Speaker 1: 25:24

When you lose something, you have to. You have to find something to grab onto Right.

Speaker 3: 25:28

Or sometimes it's letting go. I think for me it was a mix of both. It was like that, you know, even staying there and trying and doing all the things I was doing before we let go. It was it really is also understanding. Is it time for me to let go? And then, if it is, and I make that decision, how do I move forward? And, carrie, when you talked about LinkedIn, I'll be honest with you at that time in 2016, 2017, I wasn't even on it. I wasn't doing any of that. I didn't know how to build my own brand, so those words of building your brand weren't even in my vocabulary. So when I look back on that, I often think what, what could I have done differently? What could I have changed or discovered about myself during that time? And so when you said that, I was like absolutely Keeping yourself current, keeping yourself connected, is a huge part of that of reinvention.

Speaker 1: 26:22

I love that you use journaling to help process the experience.

Speaker 3: 26:25

Yeah. So I have all my journals on the back in this bookshelf back here that I started right around 2018. And the way I journal is some of my journals are vision boards. Inside I'm doing pictures of where I want to go, where I want to be, what I want to wear, how much money I want to make, like everything like that. So it really started with first kind of where do I see myself? Just this year looks like success if I'm able to do what Like what in this year could I accomplish and I know I can't do everything, but in this year I really want to be able to what.

Speaker 3: 26:59

Present at TED, I want to be able to make how much money. I'd write that down. I want to. I'd just write it down like own it and what that space does. It allows me to get out of my own head and out of the boundaries or the. You know that kind of narrow vision I have. Right, Because I I tend to play it safe. Right, I'm not a risk taker, but when I'm on that journal I can be like pie in the sky. I'm going to write it and I'm going to own it and I'm going to claim it.

Speaker 3: 27:25

So that's the first thing that journaling allowed me to do was to say I want to travel, I want to go to London, I want to go to Paris, I want to take my kids on a trip every year. It also allows me to think about myself, that future person. Right, there's me, right now, I've got 50,000 things to do, but what would that future person be doing day in and day out? What I do now, more than anything in journaling every morning is what are my five wants? What do I want? Anything, just get in the habit of getting out of the box right. What do I want? Anything, just get in the habit of getting out of the box right, what do I want? And then I write what I'm grateful for, because that gratitude allows you to kind of just kind of ground you a bit, because when you're starting to think I don't have that yet, I'm not going to get that yet, but boy, what have you already accomplished.

Speaker 3: 28:15

One of the other things that I do and I did this at the end of last year, actually the end of this year I went back and looked through my phone and I look at the pictures and the places that I've been and the people that have been with me, and so for 2024, it was huge. I took my kids to Rome, I took them to Florence. My youngest was in Switzerland and it was paid. I paid for it. I was able to do that and it was just kind of looking back on my earlier journals of what I wanted to do. It was there, so being able to kind of take that and capture that and see like I did this the year before, in 2023, I went down and looked at my phone. Where were we? We were at a Taylor Swift concert. We saw Beyonce.

Speaker 3: 29:04

I was like, oh my gosh, look at this, because at the end of the year you're so exhausted and you sometimes think I didn't get anything done. But when you go back through your phone, when you open it up and say what was the highlight of your year, I'm doing those things right that I kind of seeded in 2018, after that big letdown that are starting to show up, and part of that is kind of releasing the chains off of the mindset and being like let me just open this up a little bit wider. I want this, and so that journaling is a powerful tool and I would recommend to anyone to keep it close to you at your desk at night Just like how did the day go, what worked, what didn't work, what do you want more of, what could you not use anymore, so that you can begin to really get to that version of yourself that you want, that you dream about.

Speaker 2: 29:49

You know, it kind of reminds me of work backward from your goal. You've probably heard people say that before Set your goal and what is it going to take to get to that step? What set your goal and what is it going to take to get to that step? What's it going to take to get to that step? What's it going to take to get to that step? So in your journaling process you kind of were doing that. You were setting your goal, you had it in your head and, like you said, you're not a big risk taker but in your mind you knew what you wanted to do and you were working backwards to get there.

Speaker 2: 30:14

As you say. You see the, you were checking things out there, you were gaining those grounds, you were doing those, doing those things. And the other second thing to that is a lot of people who do that they don't ever want to get to that line. So let's say you would talk about the trip to Florence and when they're getting close to that trip to Florence they set the line just a little bit further, further out. So they're always reaching and going for something to keeping themselves motivated. Did you find yourself doing that? Did you continue to journal even after you were seeing some of these successes.

Speaker 3: 30:44

I kicked the can down the road, absolutely Because it's not about the finish line, like I think that's, it's great to achieve that goal, like I love to be. Like this is I'm get there. But I'm on get there and I'm like what else? What else is there? What else is there, what else could I do? And part of it is me looking back on the goals to say here's what I missed, I didn't get to do. Here's a bunch of things that I've listed I didn't get to do, or I want to continue to do that.

Speaker 3: 31:15

One of the things that strikes me a lot is the aspect of resilience. So this adversity life cycle, it's the ability to minimize. Like, as that adversity is coming, what can you do to minimize it? Because it's going to come. Okay, it's a challenge. We are not without it. It's going to come. But what can you do to minimize it?

Speaker 3: 31:28

And when it hits, how are you managing it Right, how are you getting through it? And then, when it's over, how are you mending from that process? And mending looks like this. It looks like going back and say what was the lessons learned? So, as I'm at another organization, what should I be doing? I know how those pebbles fell and that brick fell when it hit my head and they told me no more. I understand, I get that felt awful, but organization, it's going to happen right, because the organizational health right is important. The financial health of the organizations are important. So having that experience happen allows me now to say how are you protecting yourself financially? Because, remember, when people say you're no longer going to get the check, you got to think differently about what you're going to do.

Speaker 3: 32:15

So now I think along the lines of what does retirement look like, right, when organizations are starting to do layoffs and starting to do these changes, what can we begin to do to minimize, right, what's coming? For me now? It looks like planning. It looks like also, financial planning is a big part of that too so that I can be able to say, okay, I've got an emergency fund. Look, that didn't even exist in 2018. I had none of that. What is that? My husband was the emergency fund. That was it, and thank God that was there, because otherwise it literally would have been awful. So now I think differently about those things, because the financial aspect is part of my wellbeing and so that was not there at the time. So now I'm thinking differently, even with my goals. How am I going to survive?

Speaker 3: 33:13

And when I'm in an organization I'm working for an organization I think about this too. In an organization I'm working for an organization I think about this too. There's a contract right, I have PTO, I have time off. Take that time off. Right, I was working to the bone. Right, I was dying on the sword. I was going to give it all to you, and so I felt depleted. I had nothing left to give after that. It was really difficult for me. I tried. It was hard. Now I understand that. Take your personal time off. Take those days to recharge, because that's where your creativity comes from.

Speaker 3: 33:45

So, as a person in their fifties, I think I am more well aware of what is needed for me to exist in or outside of an organization. When I'm in an organization, how am I protecting myself? Where's that employee wellness coming from? Because that was what I just. I had no knowledge of that, and I will say, going through the doctoral program in organizational leadership gave me some of that awareness.

Speaker 3: 34:13

To now it's like what's the financial health of the organization that I'm working at?

Speaker 3: 34:18

I don't know how many people ask those questions. I never asked the question right To even think that way. And so what job means now and what money means now to me is the understanding that there's a larger agenda for me as a person and I do love what I do and money provides those means for me to do some of those other things too. So it's really about kind of the mindset of knowing that I'm doing this, I'm working for this organization, and it's a great thing. But I can't lose myself in all of that. And if that were to just go away today, what are you doing after that? Where are you going after that? Right? So now I kind of have that. Education will always be there, whether it's something I do on my own, which is great too but the journaling and the map forward and the journey to reach that version of myself is closer right. It's always top's, always top of mind, where before it was just like I wouldn't even think who is that, what? No, now it's top of mind. I think it's really important.

Speaker 1: 35:32

You mentioned. You mentioned a couple personal goals that were and how you're rebalancing around the contract right with any organization that you're working for. It's a two-way street and I'd be really interested to get your take on. What were the professional goals that you had established as part of your visioning and as part of your journaling that occurred around the 2017-2018 period that you locked into 17, 2018 period that you locked into.

Speaker 3: 35:58

One of the goals is I wanted to publish a work every year. I wanted to publish something every year. That was something that just from that having the opportunity to work collectively and write with a group of individuals I love that. That was like that's paid dirt. I love this opportunity. To me, that was creating, so I love to create and so having that ability to sit down and create something and put it out there for someone else to read, to help them, to help that person I wanted to continue to do that and pretty much I think I've done that every year. If it's a chapter, if it's just an online journal, if it's a huge publication, if it's just an online journal, if it's a huge publication, if it is even presenting in some capacity and taking that presentation and rolling it up. I wanted to keep that opportunity of writing in the forefront because for me, it just felt really good to be able to share what I know with someone else. One of the other things people probably hear me say this I want to present at TED. Y'all. I was like I want to be at TED. Ted, there was something about the ability to be in front of a crowd and just share your gift or your talent or your story for someone else to take that, or just your lived experience or what you've learned that can support somebody else and living better or feeling better or doing different. So the writing, the TED presenting, was a huge thing Travel has been. I just love it because two things I've always traveled with my kids. They've walked away with such an incredible experience and I have walked away seeing them and those experiences and it is just such a gift. When COVID came, it was definitely hard, but that you know. Presenting somewhere else, you know meeting people who do higher education at a different institution in a different country. What, what are you doing? Tell me about that? Like when I took the StrengthsF Finders assessment I'm a relationship builder, I'm a connector, so there's just something about wanting to get with people and connecting the dots. I'm like, ooh, let's do this, this is going to be so fun and then putting that creation together and giving it back out to the world and someone taking that and saying thank you. My biggest, I'll tell you this this gives me like the chills. My biggest thing in life has been when a student has come back to me to say I know you don't remember me, but when you were presenting on this, when you shared that story, when you told me that it helped me, I love it Then I'm done. I'm done for the day, because that is the goal. And so even now, currently, where I am and the opportunity to present to students and talk with them I was at Howard University and I was presenting and a student came up to me and they were like you know what? You were just on fire today and that helped me. What you did confirmed that I'm on the right path and I'm like then I've done my job. I've done my job today. And so that's kind of my thing.

Speaker 3: 39:02

When I think about my goals, what are those? They keep me grounded and connected. When I'm feeling aimless Because we all have those moments, I've had those moments where I'm so depressed I'm just like, oh, I pull out that goal, I whip out that journey. I go through all of my things and sometimes I'm crying and I'm like, oh, my God, I can't believe it. Yeah, I go back to that because that gives me. That's the roadmap that I'm supposed to follow.

Speaker 2: 39:28

Did you journal any short-term goals, something that I want to accomplish in the next month or two months? The big ones are fun. They're going to take many steps, but what did you do to kind of keep you on that road in the short term?

Speaker 3: 39:41

I want to reorganize my office. I know it's like what Believe me as I am getting older. There is a need for efficiency, there is a need to move you know what I'm saying to not deal with things that don't serve me. So I am constantly looking for ways to amplify the time that I want to spend doing the things I love and minimize those things that are just, oh my God, it's exhausting. So organizing my space because here's why. So that's my goal for the end of court. One, because having that space organized allows me to create better. So I'll think along those lines I just want my office to be organized.

Speaker 3: 40:19

Other goals, like interim by the next six months, I want to have this much money saved in the bank because I'm going to do what with that money? How am I going to save that money? So, when the bigger goals I put down there, one of the things I'll go back to is now what are the smaller steps right in between that? Because it can be discouraging to say I want to own this, whatever. So I try to put down what are the smaller steps I need to take. How can I measure those steps? Who can I tell this goal to so that they will help me be accountable for that.

Speaker 1: 40:57

You do need to get very detailed with it and have those shorter goals, but those smaller ones add up to the bigger ones. So your big come up is really taking control. You've taken control of the trajectory of your life, personally, professionally, and how you dealt with the challenges that have been presented along the way.

Speaker 3: 41:08

That is like okay, dara, you're absolutely right, it's. It's taking control and also being okay with being okay with saying, no, this doesn't fit who I'm becoming, so I'm not going to do that. Or, you know, I'm not wasting my time there and while that may seem gritty and for some people, but to me that is, that is the protection. Like you know, this, I'm a real person and a real human, and when I walk into these spaces I have to remember that I'm not a computer, I'm a human, I have feelings, I need nurturing, I need time, um and so just owning that and saying you know, I'm going to bed tonight, this might be due, I'm going to bed and rat control is important because before what would happen is one would say I think you'd be so really great at this, you'd be awesome at this. I'm like, okay, do you really want to do it? Valencia Never even asked myself did that fit into the dynamic? So now I'm sitting here doing something that someone else thought I was good at, but I never gave myself the pause to say is this what you want? Is this aligning with who you're becoming? If it is great, if it's not, hey, it's okay to say not. Now, right. So I think it.

Speaker 3: 42:23

That is that control of being able to say let me take a few minutes and make sure and I'm, I'm more, I'm quick to say that someone presented opportunity the other day. I'm like this is so wonderful, I love this, but let me take a minute. Is this going to give me an opportunity to present? Is this going to give me an opportunity to write? Am I going to be able to have time to travel? Am I going to be able to do what I want to do? Is it going to take me away from my kids? Let me design this for me and Let me design this for me. And if it doesn't fit, maybe not now, but I want to be in control. You're right, tj, of making that decision, and it really is also having a little bit of self-compassion. I didn't always get it right, and that's okay too, but I do like the idea of having that control.

Speaker 1: 43:11

Design your life first and then design your work to enable that life to be achieved Right. So you're, you're really. You're really connecting a lot of dots for me today. Thank you so much for sharing your story. If you had the opportunity to give advice to folks who are in similar situations, what would that advice be?

Speaker 3: 43:30

Consider what you need to do to prepare, to prepare yourself for your personal journey. What I mean by that and I'm trying to get my words together here is where is your CV? Is it sitting on your desktop? You haven't touched it in like five years. Dust it off. Build a brand, connect with people. Get in the habit of reaching out and connecting. If you don't have a mentor, get one. Get in part of a group that you can begin to just network and get that experience of just kind of hey, this is me, what is your elevator pitch? Like some of those smaller things that can help, you know, uplift you professionally. I had none of that. Like I had to go like peel a resume I had back from 1998 somewhere and like begin to put it together. I was so out of practice and so it is, I think, important to to to have those tools and resources available. If you don't have LinkedIn up, get it up.

Speaker 3: 44:36

Where when I was connecting with other people, particularly other women who are younger than me, they're on fire. I'm like you do what? Like when I'm learning what they're doing and how they're moving and navigating the world. Today, I was leagues and leagues behind and so it was just a matter of small things like get your CV up, start at at build a brag folder If that's one thing you can do build it so that when people would say to me, what have you done in the last five years, I'm like uh, uh, I've done a lot, but I don't even remember what I've done. So it was just kind of cataloging all these things and getting your your, your professional world, kind of in a way that you're easy, like when someone says, hey, here's a job opportunity Can you send me? I'm sending it.

Speaker 3: 45:20

It's not a matter of having to sit up all night and figure it out. Get prepared, get prepared financially. Get your retirement like ask those questions, get your emergency fund together so that if and here's I'll tell you this, someone said this. A colleague of mine said this and boy I was blown away. They said sometimes you quit organizations and sometimes they quit you and you just you know either way, right, whether it's you that's going to take the leap, or they say, hey, sorry, not sorry, right, you need to be ready. And so when they said that to me, I was like, yes, that's the truth, but just be ready, be prepared.

Speaker 1: 46:02

Well, valencia, your story is insightful, it's inspiring, but your message is even more so, your message of resilience. And really I'm going to go back to the design in your own life. Right, you have that control. Everybody has the control to design what their life looks like, how they invest their time, how they invest their resources to really achieve the goals that they set for themselves. You've provided some great examples of processes that can work to help folks get onto that path of designing their life and then designing their work according to what their goals are.

Speaker 2: 46:47

We know there are listeners out there right now facing their own professional challenges. Maybe you're feeling that growing disconnect between who you are and what you do. Maybe you're questioning if your current path is sustainable.

Speaker 1: 47:03

We want you to know that you're not alone. Every other week, we'll bring you stories that prove that there's a way forward. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2: 47:18

And remember, sometimes the biggest letdowns lead to the greatest comebacks. This is the Big Letdown. We'll be right back. Yeah, viv, we appreciate you. Viv, you know at Viv, at Viv is live in the studio. Thank you.